Broad-rock,

the answer is simple. You draw trendlines on closing prices line chart then convert the chart to candlesticks. That way you get the best of both worlds. Works a treat.

F4T
Broad-rock wrote:

Hi F4T,

Just curious about disregarding the wicks on candlesticks, it would impossible to draw trend lines on a candlestick chart using closing prices only.

Also why use candlesticks and not a line chart on close prices only?

This discussion is spiralling.

The difference of opinion between myself and Remo is simple. It concerns the use and impact of the full range of a days trading.

That discussion impacts trendlines (close vs extremes), candlestick patterns,and other areas of TA.

Let me explain it one last time then I am moving on. I apologise if this sounds patronising but I have explained the following on here previously.

There are 4 marks in a period's (day for eg.) trading. Open high low and close. The most impotant is the close, next the open and less so the high and low. This is because the open and close are considered marks because there is an auction. The close is more important because the auction comes with a full days cash trading in consideration. There are all manner of odd and unusual non regular trades in a day, OTC's, negotiated trades, delayed trades from prior periods etc. These warp the actual price action and often distort the chart range giving unusual extremes to high or low.
This is why trendlines should be drawn on closing proces, not extremes of the wicks and the strength of candlesticks is in the read body form, not the wicks. If there is no real body (i.e. doji, gravestone doji, then the main significance is that the close = the open. But the real body, if present is the main indicator.

People can interpret things as they wish and other views are ok, but i'll say this once more; one should follow the majority or volume as that is what moves the market. The common interpretation is as above, so if you want a better chance of guessing the market moves, use closing prices and real bodies if available.

I have seen Three Inside Down play out many many times. It has played out perfectlyon GKP in the past.It is one of my favourite berish reversal patters after shooting star and cloud cover. It works, in GKP's current form and it is experience that tells me that.

Remo, you can disagree as much as you want on these issues but the consensus of opinion is with me. The US uses use my interpretation as do other international traders and let's not forget that the US drives world masrkets.

That's it. Now i'll move on. Let's see how GKP plays out on monday.

F4T

Weird...somehow my response got included in your quote!

remo wrote:

inside bar right now on dow 5 min char .19:20 candle n bangWaveSurfer wrote:

as previously mentioned by F4T there are many interpretations on this, and i have seen many times where body the contained with wicks piercing the previous body do indeed work. so i think it just boils down to the trend, candles at support / resistance, and confirmation of following candles.

its funny how we started of with one candlestick pattern and now we are working our way through the rest

its a good subject but its a shame its taking place on the GKP topic
If i can ill try and move the posts to a relevant topic but its a lot of posts
it might take me a while

Also anyone can write an article. Just look at me as an example
Are they skilled to a high level????
That comments goes to me as well. Ive written all my own articles but who is to say that im right. I may be wrong. I never created the candlestick charting so i dont know it as well as the creator but people will come across my articles and think its gospel. The internet is full of errors and im sure ive made a few errors on my articles as well. Someone did point out an error on the way i described the 123 low on my video and the way i wrote it in the article. So its best to learn from someone thats wrote the system and not someone that just uses it his own way like me

my view is an inside bar is a second candle contained within the previous bar including any wicks, followed by another candle confirming the inside bar . i.e lower close than the inside bar candle.

Im not certain about that comment.but in most books a harami is contained inside of the previous candle. thats the first ive seen it described like that.Even the picture is how it should be so why put a picture up if it could be different??? who is the writer???
never the less as food4thought pointed out there seems to be more than one way to do it.
The person that introduced candle stick to the western world is steve nison and im sure he does not do it that way.Ive been to a few of his seminars in the past and he has never mentioned it like that.
If its done like that then you will get a whole load of harami all the time and that would beat the objective of a harami.
Amo wrote:

remo wrote:
I was just going by what is said here :

www.candlesticker.com/Cs43.asp


'3. Then we see a doji completely engulfed by the real body of the first day on the second day. The shadows (high/low) of this Doji do not have to be contained within the first, though it's preferable if they are'

hi jackozy
Thats not an inside bar on GKP.
everyones gonna think im having ago at everyone...lol
Jackozy wrote:

Amo
Thats not a bearish Harami if the high and low exceeds the previous candle.
Amo wrote:

food4thought
im actually not going anywhere with this. I was just trying to explain about candlesticks to Amo in general and in no way was it to do with GKP or three inside down.
Sorry if it sounded like that

Food4Thought wrote:

Thanks Jackozy. To be honest I was trying to work out what Remo and Food4though were debating more than anything else.

But to summarise everybody expects GKP to move to the downside from here. Watch it shoot up on Monday now

I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you Amo. Trading candles is a very particular skill and takes years to master as I understand it. I only use a very few and am very particular about where they occur.

I don't have the knowledge or experience so I prefer to use other methods.

Best of luck though. Read Steve Nison (I think) if you want to know more.

So a bearish Harami is valid as long as the body is contained within the previous candlestick. The high low can exceed it. Got it.

This particular pattern at a resistance is actually very simple. It's really just an inside bar trade - the second candle is the inside bar and the third one shows prices breaking to the downside so that's the direction in which you trade. Simples.

Amo,
not confusing at all. Bearish harami is valid and the third candlestick will confirm it if the sp closes below 220. the confirmation candlestick (todays) plus he harami is called three inside down.

Not sure where you are going here remo. We are at the top of a minor trend and this pattern confirms a probable change in trend, i.e a reversal. We are in exactly the right place.

There is nothing unauthodox here at all.

F4T

Hi Amo
with candlesticks you should only really trade them at the right place.
ie..known supports or resistance. anywhere else you will get a lot of false entry and that could mean the difference between profit and loss.
I love candlesticks but they have to appear at the right place or you will over trade them.

Ok so let me this get this straight. According to the links posted this pattern is a valid harami cross but not a valid three inside down pattern which is also known as a confirmed bearish harami pattern?

How confusing. It seems you are both right though but just talking about different patterns.

Sorry to get involved but I just learnt two new candlestick patterns so thanks guys

Im not here to argue with you.
but your link just confirms what i have just said???Im talking about three inside down.
Im not sure what your on about now????
Its not about scoring points. Far from it.With candlestick patterns theres so many types out there.
If some thing is not right ill say so as thats the only way people will learn.
if i get some thing wrong them people should say so as well as i dont want to show people the wrong stuff.
this is about helping each other not scoring points.
Dont take it the wrong way ,im not.
I make mistakes as well as im human too.
No hard feelings

Food4Thought wrote:

Yes of course remo, i'm not here to score points.

As i'm sure you are aware, there are views and opinions on every subject and websites to support each.

As with all my trading and TA, I like to follow the majority, because it is the majority or volume that leads the market.

Aside, from this point, you and other posters here might find the following useful. Very good for quick reference on candlestick patterns. It also confirms my point as you link does yours There are others:

www.candlesticker.com/Bearish.asp

I believe in stepping out of the PI box as it pays dividends.

I post here because I want to help others make profits and along the way maybe learn a little. I am also not afraid to cast doubt on tosh, not that I think you dish it. There is nothing wrong with testing ones convictions and a devils advocate prompts that. All I ask is that people reconsider occasionally.

I like being challenged remo, keep it up mate.

F4T and a

Have to disagree with you on that one.

daytrading.about.com/od/candlestickpatte...eInsideDownShort.htm

Lets just agree to disagree

Hi remo,

you only need the real body of the second candlestick to be engulfed by the first to make a valid harami. If the head and/or tail is within it is stronger, but not necessary.

The important marks are the open and close, not the ranges.

F4T

Hi food4thought
Only thing is ,its not a harami as yesterdays lowest price was lower than the previous day. So that negates an three inside down. Very close to one thou.

Food4Thought wrote:

SP needs to beat 220 today or we have a confirmed and reliable reversal pattern, Three Inside Down. IMO that will take us to ma200 at minimum. Very bearish.

Jacozy's wave therapy may just play out ;o).

F4T